Lessons from a Viral TEDx Speaker: The Talk That Changed Everything with Tammy Lally: Podcast Ep. 469

469-SYB-Tammy-Lally.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

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Carol Cox:
What makes a taco viral and reach millions of people is probably not what you think you’re going to be inspired by my conversation with Tammy Lally on this episode of the Speaking Your Podcast. Hi, and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I’m your host, Carol Cox. Today I have returning a very special guest, Tammy Lally. She is a TEDx speaker, but not just any TEDx speaker, the kind of speaker who has millions of views on her TEDx talk. And there’s a very good reason for that. And we’re going to get into how exactly that happened. She’s a published author and she’s a certified money coach. She helps others master their finances by first conquering their emotions around money. And she brings decades of experience and, as she says, endless love to her process for money mastery. So what? Tammy’s also going to talk to us about the work that she does in her business and with her clients, as well as her talk on the TEDx Orlando stage, that we worked very closely on the impact that doing that talk has had on her business, the speaking that she has been doing since then, the insights that she has for all of you around sharing personal stories and your message to a bigger audience. Tammy. Welcome back to the podcast.

Tammy Lally:
Thank you. It’s so great to be here.

Carol Cox:
Can you believe it has been nearly nine years? It was the summer of 2017 when you stood on that red dot on the TEDx Orlando stage, and you delivered your talk, which was only eight minutes. It was a relatively short Ted talk, but it has had such a tremendous impact not only on I know you and the work that you do, but on so many people around the world, the millions who have heard your talk and listened to it. So let’s back up those nine years to the spring of 2017. You had reached out to me because you decided to apply to speak at TEDx Orlando, and then you got selected, and then you decided that you wanted some coaching help to get it done. So what prompted you that you wanted to do a TEDx talk, and then what kind of what unfolded from there?

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. So ten years prior to that year, um, I had a traumatic family experience where I lost a brother. And that’s the personal message in the, in the talk. And when it happened, it really became clear to me that in time I was going to be able to, through my own exploration around money and my own healing and my own understanding of my family and what happened with my brother, I knew there was a really powerful message that almost anybody could relate to, and it wasn’t being talked about, but I needed the time. I really needed the time to heal. I needed the time to get through that experience, as well as embody my new mindset, my new behaviour around money. And about two years prior to you and I meeting, I kept saying, I’m going to do a Ted talk. I’m going to do a Ted talk. I mean, I just knew that it was a very powerful idea worth spreading. And I knew that I in, in my being and I just got prepared. I guess I was just prepared for the moment. And, uh, you and I just bumped into each other a couple times. And then when I was ready, somebody mentioned your name again. And I was like, okay, there’s my coach. So it, it just intuitively happened, but it was a very, it was a very intentional desire.

Carol Cox:
And Tammy, I know how hard you worked on that talk. We did a number of sessions together, and at the time you were obviously living here in Orlando, where I live as well. That’s why you were speaking at TEDx Orlando. So we would I remember we would meet in person at your office, and I had my poster board with all the post-it notes, and you would tell me all of these different ideas and things and stories, and I would jot them down all over the post-it notes. And we just had stuff everywhere. And then, you know, we kept narrowing it down, narrowing down. I was like, okay, we can’t fit this in. That goes over here. Save it for your book. Right? That’s right. Like that was that was your line, right? Right. It’s not wasted. It doesn’t mean it’s not good. It just can’t fit into an eight minute talk. We’re just going to put it in which you eventually did write a book. So that didn’t work out. And so we got it. You know, we kept iterating it and refining it and refining it. And then I remember, you know, you would, you would practice it. And so when you actually got to that day on the stage, how are you feeling in that moment and where were you? What were you hoping for? Oh.

Tammy Lally:
The truth is, I was I thought up till that day, I was doing great, emotionally grounded. I and then that morning it was waterworks. I just started crying like it just started the very beginning of the morning. Oh my God. So, um, the event started, I think around noon and, um, and, and I was like the fourth speaker. So I had a little bit of time to kind of grow into it, but I was extremely anxious. I was extremely anxious. I was more anxious than I imagined I would be. I really felt very prepared. But the emotion of the story and the potential impact was very, very big. You know, it was really, really big. Um, but my, the intention on that day was to help one person out of help one person identify what they were feeling that they didn’t have language for. That was the goal. And, um, and we, we accomplished that.

Carol Cox:
Well, you accomplished that for sure. Because I was, I was in the audience that day. And when you were, were on, on the stage and you were starting to start your talk and get into the story, you could hear a pin drop in that entire auditorium. People were glued to listening to you, and they were there, even though they weren’t literally cheering you on. I think you probably felt that they were there to support you and to share this very important story and message, not only with the audience that was there, but knowing that it was going to be a video that would live on the internet as well.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah, yeah, without a doubt, it was a very intimate theater. Um, and it helped that I had about ten friends in the audience and, um, and it helped that you were there and, and it really, um, I zeroed in on, on one of my, my best friend that was in the front row and, and I needed that, I needed that because it was so personal and it was so emotional. And, you know, it just, uh, it gave me the, the strength and, um, helped me just keep going. It was, you know, it really at that moment wasn’t about me. It turned out to be about me after which I’ll share. But, um, the impact was really a big impact on me, which I didn’t expect. Uh, but I certainly was very focused on the audience and being of service and, you know, helping.

Carol Cox:
One of the things that I talk with our clients about when we work with them is that when they are sharing stories that are of a more personal nature, especially stories that they are not used to sharing publicly, whether it’s in speaking engagements or podcast interviews. Oftentimes, and I’ve had this experience myself is what is called a vulnerability hangover. So you share the story, and then later that night or the next day, you’re like, oh, why did I share that? It was too much. The audience isn’t going to get it or, or what are they going to think of me? Or like all the, you know, the thoughts that run through our mind. So did you have any sense of that or were you at that point feeling so, you know, convicted in what you wanted to share, that you felt 100% confident that that the decision you made was right?

Tammy Lally:
I definitely felt the hangover. I mean, it’s just real. I’m not going to. I’m not going to pretend like I didn’t feel that because I did. And I felt it that night. I remember like going home and my dog was like, oh my God, I have a I had a golden retriever and they’re the best. And my body was like vibrating from that, from, from that. And, um, so I, I was very, I think I was a little bit more focused. My vulnerability was like, did I say everything? Did I land it? Was it, did I come? You know, it was I think it’s that normal part. Um, um, but the message I knew resin, I knew it resonated. I could feel it. I could feel the power of what the story. I could feel it when I was experiencing it. And in our work together in the preparation for it. I also put that book together during that time because it was all so fresh. So there was so much of my self that was very clear that this was, you know, on time for the moment. Uh, there was a lot of confidence and extraordinary amount of hangover. Totally. You know, with the vulnerability.

Carol Cox:
Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that because I feel like it normalizes that we all have these feelings and these thoughts. And what I tell people is just like, write a little post-it note, stick it next to your computer or your laptop or your phone or your bedside. Like it’s normal to have a vulnerability hangover. It too shall pass. That’s just right. Just to remind us.

Tammy Lally:
That’s right. And do not watch the tape back. No.

Carol Cox:
Have you have you watched your video?

Tammy Lally:
I have, but I, I didn’t watch it back until, um, quite some time. I think I.

Carol Cox:
Understand. Yeah. I don’t like to watch myself either. I will make myself do it, but it’s. I usually wait a little while too.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. And I did, and then I will, I will never do that again.

Carol Cox:
No.

Tammy Lally:
I don’t think so. It’s not necessary. I know what I sound like and look like, and I’m like, I get to critical, you know?

Carol Cox:
Well, obviously it was amazing. 2 million plus people thought so as well. I think what happened to me is that I think it was the following year, 2018 is the TEDx Orlando organizers submitted your talk to TEDx. The parent, the parent organization, and it ended up as one of their top picks. So it got on the home page of ted.com, which obviously is huge because so much traffic goes to that website. I think it was also in their email newsletter. So I went to their subscribers. And from what the research I had done around that time is only 550 talks per year ended up in that realm. So on the home page and in the email newsletter. And that is and I think this is again, around that time, 2018, 2019, that is out of 25,000 Ted talks that happen in a given year. I mean, I don’t know what the percentage is, but that’s a 0.001%. So obviously that gave you your talk so much visibility. But I also know that it wouldn’t have gotten the traction that it did, even if it was on the homepage of ted.com. If people weren’t feeling your message and relating to what you said. And at the time, people were allowed to leave comments on the page, on the, on the page the video was at. And since then, Ted has taken the comments off. No surprise because people.

Tammy Lally:
Readers.

Carol Cox:
Yes, people ruin things and you know, it’s at what what have you. But at the time there were comments and I remember people would leave comments, very sincere, heartfelt comments like, wow, you know this speaker Tammy said things that I could never verbalize. Like I didn’t have the words for it. To your point that you said earlier, it didn’t have the words for it, but now I understand. Or wow, I cried listening to this talk and now I know I need to go have a conversation with a loved one. So like, you literally have transformed people’s lives. And I know you’ve been contacted by people from all over the world because of this. So can you share a little bit about that?

Tammy Lally:
Sure, sure. When I did the talk, I it was really like I’ve said, you know, it was really about, you know, maximum service do for others. And what happened is that it really changed me and how I really owned, you know, my own voice and, and stepped out of my own shadow. Um, and that level of vulnerability and honesty, which I was able to, um, step into on the talk, Just had this enormous, enormous ripple effect, not only in my life, but so, so for the people that. So what’s happened is people have found that talk and they have they have been able to identify with something that has been happening in their family and within themselves, um, that they absolutely had no words for the only words they had for it was, something’s wrong with me. I’m a mess. I can’t manage my money. I’m a screw up, you know, embarrassment, shame. You know, the, the message has rippled and resonated with every. I have worked with people with in probably 15 or so countries and a lot of people in the United States. Um, but a lot of people in other countries and everybody identifies with money. Shame. If you have money, shame you.

Tammy Lally:
You identify with it. I mean, it’s you don’t know if you don’t you don’t have to have those words that that it’s money, shame. But if you hear that story and you, you’ll know immediately if it’s running, you know, running in the background. Um, so, you know, just, just the, the level, the, the, the talk itself has had such an impact because people are actually looking for honesty. They’re not really looking for me to impress them. You know, people don’t really want to be dazzled, you know, they don’t want another, another like, oh, a strategist, another tactic, another app. They want to get honest and they want help. Right? And that’s what the talk has done. It’s like it gave them a place to go. Oh my God, if that person can get up there and say what she just said and admit that I can. I can do it. I can talk to her. Right? And that’s what’s happened is people find me through the talk. They find me through the internet, the book, the what, you know, and they’ll say, I’m, I’m calling you because I know you’re not going to judge me because I heard your Ted talk.

Carol Cox:
Yes. And, and I think that is such an important point, Tammy, especially when it comes to money and finances. But it really can be any topic. And I hear this a lot from people where they say, well, if I share a story that maybe where I failed in something related to the work that I do, or, you know, I tried something and it didn’t work out, then my potential clients or the audience is going to think that I’m not cut out for it, that I’m not good, good at what I do. And I’m like, no, no, it’s actually the opposite. Because if you if you are putting yourself up on a pedestal of perfection, not that not that the speaker is trying to do that, but that’s what ends up happening. The audience is going to say to themselves, well, that person can never understand how I’m feeling. So they’re not. They’re going to judge me. But to your point, when you see someone who has has shared that, then you’re like, oh, they get me. And then they can help me because I have shared on this podcast, speaking engagements that I’ve had that I totally have bombed. Now you may think, oh my God, how? Why would I care? As a speaking coach, because she didn’t hasn’t aced every single speaking engagement she’s done because I get it. Like I get our nerves, get the best of us. We get in our own heads, right? We think we have expectations of ourselves that we can’t meet. And so we. And so I understand them when when women come to me and be like. And they have imposter syndrome and self doubt and all this, I’m like, yes, I’ve experienced that too. And then they know that I can relate to them. So just like you have done. Tammy.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s, it’s a connection. We, we connect through honesty and, and In humility. Like that’s how we help. That’s how we serve. That’s how we connect and do not, you know, when we try to impress others, people feel it, smell it. They’re not going to they can’t get what they need. And what they need is just really to feel your heart and to feel like you’re genuinely there to help them. And, um, that talk really showcased that light for someone to be in finance, you know, someone like myself that’s in finance to be up there saying, you know, I was the, I was the perpetrator of shame here. You know, I was the enabler. I was not helpful. You know, I had my own money, stuff like that’s really a big deal. And it has. And that is why it has resonated. That’s why it has reached millions. But it’s also helped me work with thousands of people over those last nine years. I mean, it’s been extraordinary. Yeah.

Carol Cox:
And Tammy, you mentioned that the torque also transform you, which you said was a little bit of a surprise and wasn’t what you expected. And you said something that you you felt or you could now own your voice in a different way. How has that shown up for you in the nine years since your talk?

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. Prior to the talk, I skirted around my story. You know, I skirted around my own shame. You know, I had not only that experience with my brother, but in 2008, I owned a 2007. I owned a small mortgage brokerage company in Florida, and I was faced with bankruptcy right during that housing crisis. I was in my 30s. I was overextended, bought too much investment properties, didn’t know what I was doing. Right. And I, I, that was a lot to carry. When you’re in finance, you know, a lot of financial people declare bankruptcy. You know, it’s it’s actually a strategic plan. It turns out, uh, but I had a lot of shame about that. About that. Um, and so when I got up on the stage, that was, like I said, ten years after this event and after the event of the, um, housing crisis. So I thought I had done a lot of work. I actually thought I had done a lot of work, individual work. I mean, I had done a lot of therapy. I’d done a lot of looking at myself. But what happened after was that when you speak that level of a truth, it can’t do. It has to transform you. It, it literally transformed the way that I saw myself in the world. I stepped out of the shadows. I was more honest, um, which I didn’t even know was a possibility because I thought I was very honest.

Tammy Lally:
Right? But but it broke. It broke. Let me back up and say this. I have been a protector of my family. I have been the fixer in my family. I have wanted to protect others. Um, and so getting up on that stage, my mother is still living. Um, I knew it was going to be very uncomfortable for her. Uh, I don’t know that she has actually fully listened to the talk to this day, but I do know that in our family that those some of the secrets and, you know, it’s about breaking free from shame. The talk is, um, so it, it allowed me to, um. Go deep. It just, it allowed me to step out of my more and more of my own family system with shame and fixing others and instead just holding space for people. Um, being with people, empowering them, not trying to rescue, save, enable. Um, it it, it’s one of those things where you have to, I have to practice what I preach. So for me to do that, it also reinforced like, oh, wow, like you’re out here really putting out your healing recovery journey and you better keep living that healing recovery journey. Like there was something psychological that just propelled me into embodying that message in a full on way, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically. Um, and it removed. Getting on the stage broke down. The shame that I still carried, I still had shame, you know.

Tammy Lally:
I still had shame around money and some of the things that happened in my past, my part in my brother’s, uh, story. And it helped me just deepen more deeply, own my own, my voice, which removed that barrier. So I believe that shame, fear, and anger are our biggest barriers to wealth. That is my whole hearted belief. Okay. And in doing the talk for myself, it allowed me to really get out in front of those emotions. And it has allowed me to rebuild my wealth. And I am a individual, self-supporting person. No family inheritance, none of that kind of stuff. And it has allowed me to really step in with a level of integrity and strength around my finances that I didn’t have before then. Right. So it’s been it’s had an enormous impact on my financial wellbeing, my spiritual wellbeing, my emotional development, you know, just my, my roundedness as a human being, I’m more real. I get it. I’m, I can by doing it. I can now be with people in their shame in a way that is so, um, healing and uplifting versus, you know, not like watching them go down the tube and not being able to help them. Right. It’s like, I know how to stand up in the midst of that and it transforms our finances. People don’t realize how the impact, the, the money impact is extraordinary. You know, when you carry shame.

Carol Cox:
Well, Tammy, well, that’s incredibly inspiring. And obviously for for those of you listening, definitely check out Tammy’s website. The link is in the show notes and her Ted Ted talk as well, so that you can hear that. And then Tammy, what would you say to someone listening who has a personal story that has deeply shaped them, impacted them, and they know that there’s a message around there around it that they that they do have the, the pool to share it with a bigger audience, whether it’s a Ted talk or speaking or a podcast or something like that. But there’s also that reluctance, you know, all the voices in their head or even voices from other well-meaning people around them who say, no, no, no, like, you know, you don’t need to share that, you know, and so they’re reluctant to do so what, what would you, what would you share with them? Or what would you have them think through as far as whether or not it is something that they want to do?

Tammy Lally:
Mhm. It’s such a great it’s such a great question. I know there’s so many people out there with stories, right, that they don’t want to tell. So I would say a couple things. If one person, if one person is going to be helped, do it, that’s your reason. If one person is going to be helped by your story, do it. Because I mean, ultimately we’re here to help. We’re here to serve others, right? We’re all here to serve others. So if now the and the other, the piece, the piece of advice that I would give is when you’re bleeding, it might not be the time to get up on the stage. But if you give yourself time to go through the experience, the personal story experience, and you give yourself healing and you allow the story and the healing to actually, you know, transform and do what it’s going to do to your life. That’s a really great time to share it. You know, I think when you’re bleeding, it’s really hard. I mean, you’re, it’s you’re bleeding. You know, it’s like, yeah, right. You so you have to give yourself some space. Like I shared already, it was ten years after my brother’s death that, um, and it’s, it’s his 19 year anniversary this week, next week of when that happened.

Tammy Lally:
Right? So it’s been 19 years since that happened. And it took me time and I didn’t have the wherewithal. I didn’t have the message from the mess yet. You know, that’s a lot, right? It’s like, make your make your mess, your message. Um, I didn’t have it yet. It wasn’t there. So you have to trust yourself. You have to trust yourself. And if it’s nagging and it won’t stop and it’s clear, then it’s yours to do, right? It’s like, I think it’s intuitively very simple. If you listen to others, you will be distracted. You have to get quiet. You have to get real with yourself. You have to align with, you know what? What are you up to? How is this going to serve others? How is it going to serve you? Because it will serve you. It’ll serve you in ways that you do not have the understanding of today. But be brave enough to do it anyway. You know, we all need each other’s stories. That’s how we move on. That’s how we grow as a society. We need them. We need them. And every time feels very urgent. Like every time in life, you know, it always feels like.

Tammy Lally:
I remember when I, when I was going to do the talk and I thought, oh my God, I better do it before someone else does it. And talks about money, shame. Because I thought everybody was thinking about money. Shame Like I thought it was real. Well, listen, ten years later or nine years later, people aren’t really talking about money, shame as much. There’s dribs and drabs. You know, Suzy Orman has done a great job. And there’s some other, um, thought leaders in finance that are talking about a lot of emotions and a lot of podcasts are talking about it now, which is awesome. And I feel like I did a part in that. I feel like I have a part in the financial messaging and the language that has changed around money and shame and emotions. I feel like I have played a part in that and I’m still contributing to that. So I and that gives me enormous, um, purpose, passion, fulfillment. So if you’re sitting on a story. Call Carol. Get it out. You don’t need to know how to do it. You know, there’s people out here that’s going to help you bring it to the stage. So do it and don’t look back. Just keep going forward.

Carol Cox:
Yes. And to your point, it transforms audiences, but it really does transform yourself. And I see that for so many of the women that we work with who are able to get to that deeper truth within them, and then build the emotional courage muscles to be able to share it with more and more people. Now, Tammy, I remember this was a couple years ago. You sent me a text message because you were invited to speak at a, at a conference, and they asked you what your speaking fee was. And so you just like popped out a number. But it was a, it was a good number, a very, very good number. And you texted me and you’re like, and they didn’t even blink an eye. And I knew I could have quoted higher. And you said, tell your tell your women that they deserve it. To quote, like to set their speaker fees higher than probably that they think because they deserve it. So can you tell us a little bit more about kind of how you’re speaking has evolved over the past nine years and how, how you understand kind of the speaking industry now that you didn’t then?

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Back then, like, like all the clients I meet along the way, I work with a lot of women, um, that are entrepreneurs and got a, got a brand out there. And what we do is we give it away for free. We just do. When we start at the beginning, it’s like, oh, or 2500 or this, you know, or 1500 or we do, we do these. Right. And what? And I did that too. So I would be invited locally in Orlando and, you know, 2500, 5000 for a workshop for a day, which, you know, that was fine. You know, it was local. And then what happened was doing the work. So I work 100, almost 90% of my work is with individuals and couples within my coaching practice, and I know the impact I have. Like, I know the impact I have, I see the impact, and I also am very attuned to what’s happening in finance. And I know that people are not sitting around being financial coaches because they are not trained in emotion. And there is a big loss. There’s a big gap between the therapist and the financial advisor, and I’m right there in the middle. So I’ve bridged the gap between those two places. I can hold the emotional space, but I’m also a practical financial person, you know, financial planner by profession. And, um, so I know how valuable I am to the industry because people are burning through their money, right? People are burning through.

Tammy Lally:
So this particular, um, engagement that you mentioned, and I’m going to, I’m going to go back to it because I think it’s really a good one. Is it was the finance industry. So say it was a company that’s very big in the financial industry and the financial app industry. And their CEO was very in lined with emotions and money. Like he was very in alignment. And that was the, the theme of their conference. And so they found the, the organizers found me and of course, they’re like, you’re money shame. How are we not picking you? Like, what’s your fee? And I and it was across the country, high elevation. It was a lot for me to do it. I’d have to be gone 3 or 4 days out of my house, away from my clients. And, um, I said, well, sure, I’ll do it for this amount of money. And they came back once and said, well, would you, would you? I said, no, this is the fee. This is the fee. And um, and they said, okay. And I was like, oops, okay. And that’s when I reached out to you, right? So so to answer your question, what’s changed is that I know who I am and I know what I bring to the industry, and I am very clear on my messaging and my impact and how I can save people, you know, and, and, um, depending on who the audience is, I only speak at places where I can that I’m going to have an impact.

Tammy Lally:
Right? Right. Which could be anywhere. But, um, but I, I’m particularly drawn to the financial industry and the legal industry because there’s a, because those are two big industries that, um, Interlap. And there’s a lot of money and earners and, um, dysfunction there. So I think I answered your question, but basically how it’s evolved is my confidence has grown, and I’m not going to not ask for what other people ask for all the time. And I mean by other, I mean other gender, right? So men get men get it all the time. They get more. They get way more than what I asked for. I mean, and it’s like, no way, no way. So I have to level up myself as a money coach, right? Preaching. I’m preaching. So if I ask a client to level up, I have to level up. And that was me leveling up. And it was profound in terms of, you know, if, if a conference, if your topic matches the conference and you’re the only expert really out there and you have a Ted talk and a book you’re in, like, those are the credentials. Now you need a Ted talk, you need a Ted talk. I mean, that’s what everybody wants, right?

Carol Cox:
Yeah. So yes. Yeah. And, and also, I think there’s such a thing as perceived value. Because if you had gone to them and said, oh, it’s only going to be $5,000. Their perceived value may be okay. Well, maybe she’s not the, the speaker that the speaker level that we want for this event. I’m not saying that they would have necessarily thought that, but I think a lot of times we assume that everyone wants the lowest cost option, that that’s what’s going to look the best and the event organizers mind. But that’s not necessarily the case. It’s usually not the case.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. I will add something that I found out that was really interesting. So when I get asked to do speaking or even like an online kind of a workshop, I get really friendly and comfortable and I ask a lot of questions and I’ll ask them, what’s your budget? What are you paying? Like I come right out and ask because, you know, I’m not going to try to fit myself into something. But what I found out was that from one of the people. He was great. He was super honest. He said, listen, when you have a Ted talk, you know your your 35,000 to 55 000. We know that we have to pay you that much. Like that’s what I was told.

Carol Cox:
That was dollars. Everyone by the way, dollars what Tammy just said $35,000 to $55,000 for a speaking engagement. I know a lot of you listeners are like, oh my God, I can never quote that. I can never imagine getting paid that. Yeah, none of us could imagine that at some point. But it, it happens. And here’s the thing. Companies and groups and conferences pay it. They’re going to pay someone. They’re going to pay some speaker for it and might as well be you at some point.

Tammy Lally:
Yep. And there’s a couple of things that they do. You want me to give you a couple more?

Carol Cox:
Yes, yes.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So what I learned was when you, when you’re on the ted.com website, which, which was where I was that he, what he told me and he, this was the guy that was in the finance. I mean, he he disclosed a lot. And he said, you know, 35 to 55,000 is what we know we have to pay out. The only time we don’t do that is if the speaker doesn’t know their worth. Yep. Yep. And and what they also do is they do this thing with the book. So I have a book. And part of part of what they do is they go for somebody that has a book and then they’ll say, well, we’ll bring in a thousand copies of your book and get. Well, that’s no compensation, right? I mean, it’s nice, but I’d rather drop ship them a thousand and pay the price myself and then get my fee right. So that’s the other trick that they do is they’re like, well, we’ll give, you know, we’ll bring your book in and da da da. Listen, you don’t get clients from books. Books don’t pay the mortgage, right? Books do not what pays the book, the pays, the mortgage is the speaker fee. So do not take the book deal and and think that’s a win. It isn’t. It’s the way that they save money. Now it I mean. And that’s what was disclosed to me as well is that they were like, well, and I wouldn’t do it. I said, nope, I’ll dropship it and I’ll give it for free. I don’t you don’t need to buy my book.

Carol Cox:
Right? Yeah. Just take the because the dollar and profit that you make from a book sale is certainly not going to amount to much. Right.

Tammy Lally:
It’s not fake $3, $5. Right. It’s it’s nothing. Um, so I, I came around that and said, no, I’ll just dropship and I’ll give those for free, which I did. And um, you know, but the, the other part is, is that especially women and I know you have a lot of women listeners, right? We are nice, we are nice, we are nice. And I know you say this. I’m sure you say this all the time, but when it comes to money, stop being nice. Just ask what you’re worth and don’t apologize. Ask what you’re worth. And if you leave your house and you’re getting on a train, a plane. Oh my God, and you’re leaving your family. Even if you’re leaving your dog like. And you’re leaving the comfort of your bed, you better pay for that. You better charge for that. Like that is mental health. That is that is emotional well-being. Like there is a fee for that. And that’s how I assess whether I go or not is how much is this actually going to cost me? And sometimes I’m like, I need 100 grand to leave my house, right?

Carol Cox:
Yeah, right. Sometimes depending on the season and what else you have going on, it could be, you know what’s so funny, Tammy? I literally had this thought last night. So I is for those, for listeners who are around our age, you may remember the supermodels from the late 1980s and early 1990s, and I would read all the fashion magazines at the time that would come out, you know, as I was in high school and college, and there was a supermodel, Linda Evangelista. And I remember there was this quote and she said something like, well, I don’t get out of bed for less than $10,000 a day for her modeling gigs. And at the time, of course, you know, and I don’t know what the inflation adjusted dollars would be now versus today, right. $10,000 in 1990. But I literally had that thought last night. And I’m like, that’s right. Like, not that I’m saying we don’t get out of bed for less than $10,000, but you should to your point, you should have in mind, like, what is, what is reasonable compensation for what it is that you’re doing, not only the time away and the travel and all that, but also because like Tammy, you have spent 25 years or I mean, your entire career in different aspects of finance and the work that you do, you’ve put in all these hours, you get amazing results from your clients. You know how to convey this message to an audience that is worth a lot. And it’s not the one hour that you’re on the stage. It’s everything that has come before, plus the unique elements you bring to it.

Tammy Lally:
Mhm. Absolutely. And I do this with a lot of my clients because like I said, I have a lot of women I work with that are in consulting and out there working, you know, getting hired by companies. And we go, we go through the process of like, what’s the time value here? Like your time is worth so much. And then, and then on top of that, it’s your expertise. You know, like if you’ve been in a career for 25 years, 30 years, you have invaluable knowledge like that. Knowledge has a price tag and it’s making those connections. It’s like, you’ve got to sit down and do the actual value, human life value. It’s like one of the things we do in financial planning, right? How to determine life insurance. Well, what’s the human life value? Right. Well, your human life value for speaking is the same. You have to assess it in the same way. What’s the cost to you to leave your house? Um. And when you land on that number, it’ll change your life.

Carol Cox:
Yes it will. And that’s one of the things that when we run our thought leader academy in the and the women come through it is that we share the going rates for keynotes, for workshops, etc., because we want them to know what our typical prices so that they have an idea of what to benchmark on. Because unfortunately, a lot of people don’t have conversations. Well, just in general, in society, we don’t have conversations about money and about what people get paid. But I like to make sure that people know what are what are the going rates and what’s possible for them. Okay, so Tammy, speaking of money, I know that you have been kind of expanding on the work that you’ve been doing with individuals and couples and working with families. So parents and adult children to think about what comes up, especially when parents are financially supporting their adult children. So can you tell us where? Where did this come from? Like, where were you seeing this and what have you been noticing?

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. It is an extraordinary time in the world and with with money, everything. Things have really changed since Covid. They have really changed that level of inflation that we experienced during during Covid with housing, um, food, child care, you know, the big three, those are the big three for everybody housing, food, child care. And if you don’t have child care, then it’s health insurance, right? So it’s just swap it out if you if you’re not with kids. So what’s happened is adult children in their late 20s, early 30s are relying on their parents. And their parents are either, um, generate, you know, most of them are millennials, I mean, boomers, sorry, a lot of them are boomers, but there are a lot of them are generation in their 50s, which is my generation, I guess is X, right? Yes. So so what’s happening is my work has really evolved not only with individuals and couples, but into families. So I’m now working in families with not only the husband and the wife, but the kids, right? The adult children, parents are hiring me to work with their adult children because they, they are supporting them. They’re subsidizing their housing. They’re subsidizing their child care, like a lot of adult parents are paying for helping pay. But what’s happening is people don’t understand what’s really going on internally, emotionally around this dynamic. So there’s a lot of these words like entitlement, these, these kids are entitled, right? It’s bullshit. They’re not entitled. They are living in an extraordinary wealth gap that we do not have a plan for.

Tammy Lally:
Yet we are in the middle of. Love. So we are in the middle of this to be. We’re in the middle of it. And we need, you know, we need all our smart people to come together and figure out all these housing and health care and child care so that, um, things can even itself out. But what’s going on in the families is people are really carrying shame. The parents have a lot of shame because they feel like they’re enabling and they didn’t do the right. They didn’t do, they didn’t do it right with their kid. Like, why can’t, why can’t my 30 year old be independent? Right? And then the 30 year old is, is feeling so much grief and shame that they can’t self support. But that’s not really what it’s going on. What’s going on is we’re living in this massive wealth gap and we and we need a bridge. We need some new pieces. We need, we need solutions. We need real solutions in our society, um, to solve this problem. But because we don’t talk about money and feelings, the families are confused on how to navigate it. So the carried shame on both sides. There’s also a lot of grief. You know, kids are experiencing grief because they’re they did everything right. They went to college, they got the degree. They’re trying to land a job, but they can’t handle their rent. They can’t buy a house. They can’t get their out of, you know, they can’t get their subscriptions under control.

Tammy Lally:
They’re leaking money all over the place. And then the parents are furious, resentful. So my work is really helping them understand like what’s really happening here, which there’s a lot of emotional impact. So we’re so we’re, you know, digging through the emotional part so that I can help both sides come up with a plan and a strategy with money that can be helpful, not harmful to the 30 year old or the 40 year old or the 50 year old, because the 75 and 80 year old parents are also supporting the 50 year olds. So it’s not just 30, it’s 30, 40, 50. Right. So it’s a very interesting, um, time. And, uh, and it’s such an important time to talk about what’s really happening emotionally in the family systems where there is a lot of financial, which feels like financial enabling and financial entitlement. So that has become a very strong niche for me. Like over the last six years since Covid that has really surfaced. Um, we are also living in a huge time of wealth. Oh my God, the wealth. I mean, I’m, I’ve got 35 year old kids that are selling companies for millions of dollars. But what’s happening? Here’s what’s happening, though. People do not recognize when they’re in fear, shame, anger, and resentment. And when they’re in those heavy emotions and they don’t have a path through, they are numbing. They are chasing, they are chasing, they’re shopping. They’re gambling the gamble.

Carol Cox:
Oh my God, the gambling. Gambling out of control. Yes.

Tammy Lally:
So the level of addiction that has arised in the last five years is bigger than anything that I saw ten years ago. So the kids, the younger people, the 50s, the 60s, the 70s. I have clients in their 70s. The level of shopping, numbing, gambling, eating, just anything to take away the feelings any way, any way to numb the pain because people don’t know how to deal with their emotions. And you will stay broke. Paycheck to paycheck living. If you do not know how to understand your fear, understand if shame is running in the background and you’re pissed off and angry about whoever, right? Even including, you know, things you can’t control like politics. But people sit in a lot of that fear and a lot of that anger, and it takes away from your wealth and your health and your ability to connect with others. And that’s the systematic problem. I’m seeing bigger and bigger and bigger and family systems. It’s just, it’s, it’s everywhere. So that my work hasn’t shifted, it’s deepened. It’s gotten I mean, since that talk, it is just laser focused on, you know, how shame erodes wealth. It erodes your health, it erodes your wealth, and it will keep you lonely.

Tammy Lally:
Lonely. It’ll erode connection. So, um, I’m just seeing it really play out in the well. This is the one thing I. This is a gift from the talk. When I did that talk, the talk is about the impact it had on the whole family. You know, it’s all about shame and the family systems and how it erodes. I am living and sitting in that right now, like I’m actually a eye witness in that arena with all of those families. And I can hold that and really be effective and help people. I couldn’t do that nine years ago before I did that Ted talk. Couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t even know how to have how to have done that. But that is a direct, a direct result of doing that talk. It has allowed me to be in that arena, be with those families, individuals, and really help them all connect, overcome these, you know, hard, shameful life experiences. Um, and people are thriving. Like people are really thriving as a result of being able to come to a space to feel seen and all that.

Carol Cox:
Wow. Tammy. Well, you are an inspiration. Thank you for the work that you do. You are the messenger that your audiences are waiting for. And I am grateful to know you to have had the opportunity to work with you. And, and I’m, and I’m just, I’m grateful for you to have come back on the podcast to share about this experience, to be able to look back over the past nine years and, and to see how much you have grown into this role that you have now. And I have a feeling there’s like another Ted talk or a book in there somewhere, right, about this idea of like the family dynamics, which is you mentioned that you did that in your first talk, but what you just mentioned about the, the older, uh, parents helping their adult children and the wealth gap and the income inequality. I think that’s, that is something like you said, is relatively newer even since nine years ago.

Tammy Lally:
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s really changing finance in general because we’re now like in finance, we’re getting, you know, there’s these family boutique offices now, right? So there’s families that have so much wealth. So there’s now advisors that are going, you know, working with the whole family because, you know, there’s an enormous amount of wealth, there’s an enormous amount of wealth, and there’s going to continue to be more and more wealth than we’ve ever seen. I mean, it’s extraordinary. So we have a lot to navigate and we’re just kind of in it. We’re new and it’s fresh. Um, And you know, I’m here for the long term. As long as my brain keeps working and my heart’s still pumping, you know, I’ll just keep being of service. You know, I don’t think. I don’t think I’m going to run out of any opportunity because I think money, money and shame are here to stay, unfortunately for a while.

Carol Cox:
Absolutely. Well, thank you again for the work that you do, and thank you so much for sharing your insights with our listeners. And I appreciate you coming back on the podcast. Oh thank.

Tammy Lally:
You. It’s an honor, a true honor.

Carol Cox:
Until next time. Thanks for listening.

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