450-SYB-Jen-Mueller.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Carol Cox:
When the stakes are high, whether it’s on stage or in a media interview. How can you stay calm, clear and confident? My guest today is Jen Mueller, a veteran sports broadcaster of the Seattle Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners. And she’s giving us her tips on this episode of the Speaking Your Brand podcast. More and more women are making an impact by starting businesses, running for office and speaking up for what matters. With my background as a TV political analyst, entrepreneur, and speaker, I interview and coach purpose driven women to shape their brands, grow their companies, and become recognized as influencers in their field. This is speaking your brand, your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience. Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I’m your host, Carol Cox. Have you ever had one of those moments where all eyes are suddenly on you and your brain decides now is the perfect time to forget every word you were going to say. Whether it’s a big presentation, a media interview, or even a meeting. How we communicate under pressure can make or break how we’re perceived as leaders. That’s why I’m so excited about today’s conversation with my guest, Jen Mueller.
Carol Cox:
Jen is a veteran sports broadcaster on the sidelines for the Seattle Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners, and she spent over 25 years covering some of the highest stakes environments imaginable. She’s also the founder of Talk Sporty to Me. I love that name, where she teaches professionals how to communicate with confidence, clarity and composure no matter the situation. In our conversation, Jen and I talk about what it means to be a clutch communicator, how to use those high pressure moments to showcase your expertise instead of hiding from them. How to prepare for spontaneity. Yes, that is possible. And how small everyday interactions can train you for the big stage. Now, I’ve also spent the past 20 years on the TV news during election seasons, so I know what it’s like to be live and not know what’s going to happen next or what you’ll be asked. And I share in this episode a story of what happened when I was asked a question and I just totally froze, but how I handled it. So if you’ve ever found yourself thinking, I wish I could stay calm, clear and confident when the heat is on. This episode is for you! Jen, welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast.
Jen Mueller:
Thank you. This is going to be a fun conversation. I like it when two media members get together because I feel like I’m a little less on the hot seat, you know? Okay, like, you get me.
Carol Cox:
I get you. And trust me, I have my own stories to share about things because those are the ones that stick in your mind, right?
Jen Mueller:
Yes. Yes they are.
Carol Cox:
All right. So you have you spent a lot of years reporting from the sidelines? First tell me, how did that even come about? Like, how do you get to be a reporter on the sidelines of these big professional sports?
Jen Mueller:
You know what? Mine is a little bit of an unconventional path, and I call them bubble gum moments. All of the little things that I was doing in the dark behind the scenes to eventually be considered on air talent. I was never hired to be, um, on TV. I never applied for the job of the sideline reporter for the Seahawks. What I am by heart, by nature, and I think at heart is a producer. So I spent a lot of years watching people on TV and writing for people on TV, developing my own style, learning by watching them, and then just positioning myself as somebody who could step in and do the job of the on air part.
Carol Cox:
All right. So then so you get this, this opportunity to be on the sidelines to report what’s going on in the games. So what what is that like to be there on the silence. Obviously, there’s a lot going on, right? The game’s going on. All the players are there, the coaches, the people in the stands. Like, tell us what that environment is like.
Jen Mueller:
An NFL game is electric. It does not matter where you are now. They happen to be just a little bit more electric in Seattle because the crowd at Lumen Field is unreal, but it is sensory overload from being so close to the action and seeing how physically imposing and strong and powerful these guys are to hearing everything from the stands. And the thing about being on the sidelines, I love watching the game there. You can only see a very small part of the game, and that’s where like the communication and the questions and how you piece together the story of the game is very different than if you were watching from home or watching from the press box, or even from the 200 level in a stadium, because you’ve got a different vantage point than I do. And so I constantly feel like I am stumped on the sidelines and am trying to overcome that in the conversations I have during interviews.
Carol Cox:
So then tell us what it’s like to do an interview then. So obviously you have to kind of tune out everything else that’s going on around you to focus on the person that you’re interviewing now. Do you already have some questions that you’re running in your mind beforehand? Like, tell us a little bit about the prep and then what happens during the interview.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, I should have grabbed my pages of notes that I take during an NFL game, because when you’re on the sidelines, you’re kind of on your own. I’ve got my crew in the booth, but they are dealing with their own, you know, game calls, so they don’t have time to look things up just for me. So I keep just a running tally of both plays and questions, and I will start writing down questions I might want to ask from the very first play of the game, because you don’t know what’s going to end up to be most important at the end. The other part of my job is the expectation is that I will get between 4 and 6 interviews, Use regardless of the outcome. If you need 4 to 6 interviews, you can’t be asking the same four questions over and over and over again. You’ve got to tailor those questions to the person, to the position that they play, to the time of the game that you’re talking about. And so I constantly have kind of these running lists and various points in the game that I’ll start compiling that so that I can be very concise and precise when I’m doing those interviews.
Carol Cox:
And also, I assume you want the interviews to be interesting for the the people who are watching. You can’t just like, like boring, dull questions that everyone always asks.
Jen Mueller:
Well, and see, you just hit the nail on the head right there. If I can guess what your post-game question will be. And I’m sitting on my couch and I only watched five minutes of that game. There was probably a better way to ask that question. And one of the things I realized very early on, and I know that you’ll appreciate this. Our questions are part of the story as compared to my counterparts who work in print media, right? Who work for magazines, who work for the digital side, who work for newspapers. They can ask whatever they question they want, and their audience never hears it. But my audience always hears the question that I ask. And so it’s my job to make that question interesting, but also to make sure that I am drawing out the very best piece of information without tap dancing around and taking, you know, forever to get to the heart of what it is that we’re talking about.
Carol Cox:
Yeah, I can imagine that is it’s a delicate dance, and I assume that you got better at it as you went along. You know, the first few games versus after you’ve been doing it for years.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, I’ve done this now. I’ve been in sports broadcasting 25 years, 17 on the Seahawks sidelines. And you know, they don’t really teach you how to ask questions in college. You know, they they teach you the very technical aspects of broadcasting. And that’s very helpful. But if you are sent out there to ask questions and to do an interview initially, your standard is going to be too low. In fact, I think a lot of standards are too low when it comes to asking questions, because we assume that if we get an answer that it was a good enough question. And that’s not true, because most people are kind enough and considerate enough to give you an answer, whether it’s a good one, the right one, the one that you were looking for, that is an entirely different story. And so what I have gotten very good at is asking very specific questions. There is only one answer to that question. And my athletes learn to trust me because they know they are the ones that have that answer. Right. I’m not trying to play this like gotcha game. I just want you to drop your guard and tell me what happened on that play in the third quarter, where you allowed them to convert on third and 12.
Carol Cox:
I love it. Now, I grew up watching football because my dad and I, we would watch it, you know, on the weekends. So I loved it. I don’t watch it as much as as I used to, but it is a lot of fun. So that is so cool. I have not been into an NFL game ever in my life, and that is something that’s on my list because I know how what an incredible experience it would be.
Jen Mueller:
It really is like you’ll be talking about it for forever because every sporting event is an event, right? There’s food, there’s entertainment, there’s people, there’s a social aspect. So whether you remember the details of the game or not, boy, are there so many talking points off of an NFL game.
Carol Cox:
All right, Jen, let’s talk about this idea of a clutch communicator. This is a phrase that you brought to me for this interview. So what does that mean to be a clutch communicator and why is that important not only for reporters, you know, on the sidelines or wherever they happen to be, but for those of us who are just doing presentations and panels and podcast interviews.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, it’s knowing that you are prepared for any moment and that the uncertainty is Minimized by the confidence you have in your skills, right? Every time we have a conversation or we ask a question, we’re really leaving things up to chance. I might think I know the answer, and I have a pretty good idea of how a conversation is going to flow. But in the back of my mind, before I have entered this conversation, whether it is an interview that I am conducting or where I’m in this position, I know a few things that I can do to minimize my doubts and like the self-consciousness that I might have, I know how to pivot out of a of a challenging situation, or when I’ve forgotten a word or lose my train of thought. And it’s those sorts of things that make you clutch. It’s not saying the right thing every time. It’s knowing that you have something to say and being confident enough in that ability.
Carol Cox:
Now, Jen, I know that a lot of the women that we work with and a lot of women who listen to this podcast, they like to be very prepared, whether it again is for a presentation, a talk. That they’re delivering or a podcast interview. And that is great. Obviously we want to be prepared. We want to to make sure that we are providing value to whoever is listening to us. But I feel like there are also a lot of us who get very worried about getting a question that they haven’t prepared for, and they almost they sort themselves out with thinking that that’s going to happen whether it happens or not. So can you tell us a little bit about what is going on there and how how can we help ourselves with that?
Jen Mueller:
Well, you’ve got to remember that you’re the expert. The reason that you are fielding that question is because you have some version of the answer. Most of the time, people are not looking for the hard, fast, truest answer that you could possibly give. What they’re looking for is insight and perspective. So you already have that. If you try to psych yourself out by thinking about all the different ways you are not the right person to be answering this question, then try this. In my experience now, I can’t dispute that because in your experience, whether that is 25 years, two years, you know, one month on this project, six months is the CEO. That’s your experience. And now we have framed this in a way where, okay, I am seeing you as the expert and you are giving me insight and perspective based on that experience.
Carol Cox:
Right? Like I as I say, AI is not the ultimate expert. It can tell you. Google search used to. Now you know, chatbots can tell you anything you want to know about. Anything you ask, whether it hallucinates or not is another. You know, we’ll put that to the side. But to your point, your audiences want to know, well, how did you experience that? What did you learn from that? What did you what have you gained? What are all these lessons and insights and perspectives you’ve gained because of this work that you’ve been doing for however many years. Not like reciting off of a dictionary or encyclopedia. All the facts that someone could learn about whatever the topic is.
Jen Mueller:
And it’s okay to ask a clarifying question, right? I mean, you don’t want to ask a question to every question, right? That gets a little bit tedious, but it’s okay to say, hey, why do you ask? I want to make sure I give you the best possible answer. Or when people say something like, hey Jen, tell me how you got to where you are in your career. My first question back to them will be, what specific part would you like to know about, or what would be most helpful for you to hear? Now, I can be confident that I am giving you the best possible answer. It’s okay to do that. The guys do that in the locker room. To me, sometimes if I say something that is slightly too general, they’ll say, oh, did you mean on that drive in the third quarter? Yep. That’s exactly what I meant. Nobody thinks twice about that. We’re just having the conversation. Station.
Carol Cox:
Yes. Yeah. Because and it’s thinking of it as a conversation. I like to say that even public speaking, even when you’re speaking from a stage, I liken it, you’re still having a conversation with the audience. Now, the audience is not necessarily talking back to you every minute like you would in a regular conversation, but you’re still sensing their energy. Where are they getting you? Where are they maybe a little bit lost or a little bit confused, and then adjusting as needed based on what you’re getting back from the audience?
Jen Mueller:
Yeah. And it’s trusting yourself in interactions. Right. So if it goes back to your original question, if you can trust yourself to make small talk with a stranger, you can trust yourself to answer questions from an audience.
Carol Cox:
Yes, I love that. Now, Jen, you talk about this idea of asserting your presence. Can you tell me what does that mean? Like what does it mean to assert your presence? And how has that shown up for you?
Jen Mueller:
When I first got into sports, they were, let’s say, allowing women to work in sports broadcasting, but they weren’t really encouraging or supporting. They really didn’t know how to to do that. And so it was up to me to grab those really small moments. I knew that I wasn’t going to get an hour to make a great impression. I was going to be able to show up to a press conference and ask one question. Maybe it was just sitting in the press conference was my way of being present and asserting my presence. And we overlook these little moments all the time throughout the day. But I would show up and I would make sure that I had on a different color blazer that day. Right? So instead of wearing black and everybody’s wearing black, I’ve got a teal green blazer on so that when my hand goes up, I’m the one that is going to get called on when I get called on. I’ve got the one question that it is that I wanted to ask, and I will deliver that with precision and with a confidence in my tone that forces you to think, oh, that was a good question. Or ah, she was prepared for that moment. And it’s not about how many words you say, it’s about how you choose to show up and how consistent you are with showing up. People underestimate that part of it too, right? If you were in a space where you were seeing the same people all the time, this is a huge advantage in how you want to show up and assert your presence, whether that is with a smile squaring your shoulders before you walk in the room, being very precise in how you greet somebody or engage in small talk, and just the way that you show up that is asserting your presence.
Carol Cox:
What would you say to listeners who are like, well, I don’t really feel like I have a very assertive presence. You know, my personality tends to be a little bit on the shyer side. I don’t really I don’t have a big voice or, you know, I don’t really like taking up a lot of space, but they still enjoy speaking. What are some strategies or tips that could help them.
Jen Mueller:
It isn’t about being somebody that you’re not. It’s about maximizing where you see your strengths, right? And maybe starting with the smallest like measure of success to build your confidence in that. So my smallest measure of success every time I walk into a locker room is how many guys say hello. And it’s always my goal to get five hellos when I walk into a locker room or clubhouse. Now, I am a typically very outgoing personality. You put me in a locker room with 60 plus guys, all of whom are bigger, faster, stronger, some of them louder and more boisterous. Boisterous than I am. And that’s enough to make me go, oh my gosh, what am I doing here some days? You know, like the days that you’re just not feeling it. And so if I’ve got a really small measure of success and all I have to do is say hi back, I can do that. And that is showing up. Everybody can say hi or hello. We skip over it a lot of times when we’re too busy, which is why it’s a win. But start with something like that. Just smile at somebody. You would be shocked at how far smile goes. And I know because I get feedback from that all the time from guys in the locker room. But we skip past that in business all the time because we take it for granted or we’re not tracking it. If you start tracking those things, you would be surprised at just how you were showing up or how you can use those moments to show up even better.
Carol Cox:
Jen, how have you handled any sexism that has come up and not necessarily directly with people you have interacted with, but maybe even online? I remember when I’ve been doing election coverage on the news for a long time, and when this was during in the during the 2016 election cycle, which we know was the start of very unusual politics. And so at the time, the news station would livestream what the news segments to their Facebook page. That was really big at the time. Facebook’s would be their Facebook Live, and of course all the comments would come in. There are no comments of substance, but their comments about me being a woman. So I just ignored them because I’m like, whatever. I don’t know these people and I’m not going to read the comments, but I’m just curious, have you what have you experienced and how have you handled it?
Jen Mueller:
I have experienced various forms of that over the years. Again, when you’re a woman in an NFL locker room 30 years ago, that is a very different experience than being in there today. For a long time I ignored the comments, and I have worked with some really awesome people who came to my defense, or guys who have been awesome to work with. That helped build my credibility and my reputation among the fans. I did not engage with most of those people online for years. It has only been in the last 3 to 4 years where I feel comfortable enough not only with my position as I’ve got enough experience under my belt, but also I am comfortable with my voice in this space. I’m comfortable with saying, I don’t like to hear every man talk about sports, like it’s okay if you don’t want women to talk about sports, but you make the assumption, I want every man to talk about sports. That’s not necessarily true either. Now, that’s about as combative as I will get, and I will just kind of point things out gently. Right. The assumptions that get made, um, I do call people out, but mostly because it’s harmful to other women in the industry, right? Whether I can take it or not is irrelevant, but it’s harmful to other people that I work with. And so now, being at this stage of my career in my life, I feel like it’s easier to speak up for people and to just kind of point out, hey, maybe you didn’t think about it from this point of view. Uh, and I’ll pull back the curtain as much as I possibly can on whatever it is that they are commenting on. Um, but yeah, that is that is one of the parts of the job that is frustrating. Some nights at the end of a long night or a long homestand or a long game. Yes.
Carol Cox:
Well, Jen, thank you for sharing that. And this is why I asked this question, because I want more women to understand that it’s it’s normal was the wrong word. But it happens. And not to feel alone or isolated or like they they don’t have someone to turn to if, if they are feeling this way, that it happens. Unfortunately, to many of us in the public. I like to say women who have a public presence and a public voice. Eventually you’re going to get some type of feedback related to that that you’re not necessarily going to enjoy and is probably unfounded, but just know that you’re not alone. And I like to make sure I have my circle of women, women friends right to turn to, to be like, okay, that is a whole that’s like my public facing persona. And but but here is, here is what matters to me.
Jen Mueller:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Carol Cox:
Well, Jen, let’s talk about, uh, situations that didn’t necessarily go the way that you wanted. I know I have had my share of those. I like to say, if you put in enough reps, you’re gonna have those times where things are just like, no, I didn’t that didn’t go the way that I wanted. Do you have anything that comes to mind?
Jen Mueller:
Oh, I have a handful of things, but I’ll tell you my job for 19 years on the Mariners broadcast was to do the walk off interviews after wins. And some of them are, I’m going to say, uneventful, right? The game was already decided in like the sixth or seventh inning, so there’s no real drama at the end of the game. Those generally go according to plan. It’s the ones where it truly is a walk off. Like they hit the game winning home run in the bottom of the ninth. Because now here’s what’s going to happen. I will be in the middle of some sort of celebration, and it probably includes a very cold bucket of ice water or Gatorade. And so while I am trying to dodge Gatorade, I’m trying to ask questions and keep it a secret and tune out all of the noise that’s happening in the stadium while looking at the television camera. And while I dodged most of them, I did get squarely hit with a few buckets of Gatorade. And I don’t care how much you prepare for that interview, it is so cold. And quite honestly, the very first thing I’m thinking when it happens is what does my hair look like? And is my makeup running down my face? Right.
Jen Mueller:
So now I’m totally distracted. But in those moments, you’re still on TV. It is still being broadcast in front of thousands of people in the stadium at that moment. And so you’ve got to regroup really quick. Finish that up and make sure that the focus stays on the athlete that you’re talking to. The thing that I have learned is to practice for distractions and to state the obvious about whatever is happening. So the bucket of Gatorade is really cold. It will take your breath away, and it will cause you to forget everything that you were about to say. I’m not going to pretend like it’s not the case, right? I will say when I need to regroup. Wow, that was cold. Wow. Let’s get back on track with this. I’m just buying myself a little bit of time to call my heart rate and to get back to it, but everybody just saw it, so I’m not afraid of acknowledging it. And we shouldn’t be afraid of acknowledging when something doesn’t go according to plan in a conversation or an interview or a presentation, it makes you human. It level sets everything, and it gives you a chance to calm down and to reset from wherever you want to start.
Carol Cox:
Yeah, that’s really helpful. Just. Yeah. And acknowledging, like you said, everyone could see it. It’s not it’s not something that you can just pretend didn’t happen. And so like kind of acknowledge it also just kind of gets it off of their mind too, because you’ve closed the loop, so to speak, in their mind. And then you can go on. I remember that, you know, I’ve done lots of live TV and unlike you, I’m the one answering the questions from the reporter. So obviously we have the topics that are probably going to be for that segment and the segments are short, you know, 3 or 4 minutes, right, with myself, the reporter and the other political analysts. So there’s three of us. So it’s like boom, boom, boom, right. Question, short answer, you know, next person, etc.. So I’ll have my prepared notes, just like you do on the sidelines of what we’re going to talk about, and some different things that I’ve thought about in advance. And I remember it was so again, lots of live TV and I’m good at thinking on my feet. And this was again, election night. 2016 was not going the way that I had hoped and we were taped. Luckily we were taping for the next morning, so it was like 1130 at night. Close to midnight. We were getting ready to wrap because we had just done the 11:00 news hour and the.
Carol Cox:
So we were taping the segment, not live, and the reporter asked me a question and I literally, I think I was in a state of shock and I took me like 10s to answer, which would never happen on live TV. My brain probably knew we were taping for the next morning because I probably would have answered anyways. But I remember I just kind of sat there and for the first time there were zero. Like no words would kind of come out of my mouth. And then finally I just, like, took a deep breath and I answered, of course they cut it, you know, they slice it up for the next morning, but that has stuck with me so much because I feel like no matter how experienced you are, no matter how many years I have done this, no matter how prepared I was, sometimes like physically, like your body physiologically is doing something that you can’t necessarily control. It’s human. Like, I was having a real human moment and instead of beating myself up for it, which I do not, I give myself a lot of grace. And I think that’s important for us to remember, too, that we’re not always going to be perfect and to give ourselves grace when things don’t go the way that we would want them to.
Jen Mueller:
You want to know the most brilliant thing in TV? You already know this, but I’m going to share it with the audience. The most brilliant part of TV is that there’s always another broadcast. And so we joke about it all the time. The worst is if you have that moment and then you’re not on TV for two weeks because you went on vacation. Right. The best part is you have a chance to go back and do it again, probably in another 30 minutes. Right. 30 minutes or 2 hours. And so I hate to say it’s like getting back on the horse, but it really is important to go back out there and have that interaction. And that’s another one of those things where I would just say, oh my gosh, my brain went totally blank. We’ve been talking about this all day. Just buying myself a little bit of time. Right. I have lost my train of thought during an interview. I have had producers talk in my ear while I’m doing an interview so that I can’t hear the person that I’m actually talking to, and then I’m stuck because they finish their answer and I don’t know what they just said, right? And I have little phrases that I can get out of that To say I was so caught up in that answer I almost forgot my next question. Now the the truth is, I did forget the next question. I have no idea what they said, right? But I’ve got the little ways to pivot out of that, which once again, it’s level setting and stating the obvious. I have also literally tripped into athletes trying to introduce myself while they were getting dressed. Those are moments I don’t forget. And you can’t pretend like it didn’t happen because everybody just watched this happen, right? Talk about a human moment where your face goes bright red and you’re just like, okay, you know what I’m going to do? Try this again tomorrow. Um.
Speaker3:
Well, hopefully they’ll say they’ll say hi to you because.
Carol Cox:
They remember you.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, well, I did make quite the impression. I did, I did make quite the impression. Yeah.
Carol Cox:
Jen talk to us about your company. Talk sporty to me. What do you do and who do you work with.
Jen Mueller:
So I do a lot of keynotes and I do a lot of content around effective communication. It’s just like the conversation we’ve been having today, pulling back the curtain on some of these conversations to really dissect how did we get there? How do we make the most of really short interactions? How do we make sure that we’re not just asking for more communication? We actually are giving the people around us, whether it’s our team at work, our team on the field, what they need to be successful. So I work with a lot of clients that are in the financial space, um, folks who need some additional tools around those soft skills, right? They’ve got the numbers down, but a little bit of soft skills and, um, inspiring some audiences to believe that they’ve already got the answers. They just they just need to elevate themselves just a little bit.
Carol Cox:
Well, what is what is something that listeners can start doing today, a habit or a strategy that they can incorporate into what they’re doing to help them build this idea of confidence when they’re in high pressure situations.
Jen Mueller:
Well, I would say a couple of things. Number one, you could turn every situation into your version of high pressure. So here’s what I mean. You know that people are going to ask you the question, how are you. Multiple times a day, right. Hey, how are you? How’s it going today? And we would generally answer with the same script, whatever that is. I’m good. How are you? I’m good. Instead of delivering that same line, deliver what I would call a success statement, which changes that conversation. It makes you vulnerable in the moment. And it’s going to create that, that, um, a little bit more high stakes because the person you’re talking to was not expecting that answer either. And so now you get to practice in a real low stakes moment, the same exact emotions that you would feel in some of those more crucial, crucial and critical conversations. Does that make sense?
Carol Cox:
Yes, yes. Like taking these daily opportunities to practice?
Jen Mueller:
Yes. So you would say something like I’m fantastic. I loved this podcast episode that I got a chance to talk to today. Right. I answered the question. I gave my success. I love this podcast. I just opened the door for a different conversation. I get to guide that conversation, but I also get to practice some of these skills because I don’t know where the conversation is going to go. So use these little moments. By the way, you’re also advocating for yourself when you do that, but use the little moments to start building up the skills and the confidence to use them in bigger moments.
Carol Cox:
Oh, I like that. Jen. Where is the best place for listeners to connect with you?
Jen Mueller:
I would say LinkedIn and Instagram. You can find me on Talk Sporty to me if you like the videos, Talk Sporty to me on YouTube. That is the website I will also throw out if you are a sports fan and like cooking, I have an entire show where I cook with athletes called I cook, You Measure, and that’s a really fun way to just engage on a different level in all of those conversations.
Carol Cox:
Oh that’s fun. This is on YouTube.
Jen Mueller:
It is on YouTube. Yep.
Carol Cox:
Well, tell us some of the things that you’ve cooked.
Jen Mueller:
We have cooked any number of things from like a taco, turkey mac to steak with chimichurri to chorizo with eggs. But the crazy part is figuring out what their comfort and skill level is in the kitchen. So you talk about vulnerability. Tell you what, these guys are admitting that they don’t know how to use a can opener or a knife. I think that takes a little bit more, um, confidence and vulnerability than you might imagine, but it also creates some really fun and funny moments in the kitchen.
Carol Cox:
Oh, that is fun. All right. I’ll make sure to put all of these links in the show notes so that listeners can find you on YouTube and LinkedIn and Instagram and your website. Jen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed this conversation.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, it’s been really fun. Carol, thanks.
Carol Cox:
If this conversation got you thinking about how you show up when it matters most, whether it’s on stage, in a meeting, on camera, even on a zoom webinar, and you want to elevate both your content and your delivery. Join us at our next one day in-person Speaking Accelerator workshop in Orlando, Florida. We have so much fun! You create your signature talk and you get to practice delivering it all on the same day. That’s why we call it an accelerator. You can get all the details at speaking your brand.com. Again, that’s speaking your brand. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the Speaking Your Podcast and your favorite podcast app and share it with a friend. Until next time, thanks for listening.
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